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Author Topic: New Dexros 1 engine oil specification for 2011 models  (Read 33135 times)
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mmarges
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« on: November 24, 2010, 03:16:24 PM »

Ok, yesterday I got a call from my dealer regarding a warning not to use conventional oil in any 2011 model or this could void your warranty.

Basically, in 2010 the oil life monitoring system is scaled/calibrated to conventional oil. For all 2011 GM vehicles the oil life monitoring system is now scaled/calibrated to the longevity and quality of the new Dexros 1 specification oil which is basically a semi-synthetic blend. Therefore you can imagine that if you are using conventional oil in a 2011 and going by the oil life monitory system you are stretching it way to fare.

Below is a cut&paste of a bulletin my friend (GM mechanic) emailed me today...there was a little more to it in the document but could cut and past certain sections and graphics. See below. Wondering if anyone else knows anything more on this?
---------------------------------------------------

  •  Owners of model year 2011 vehicles may be concerned about the availability of engine oil meeting the new dexos 1™ engine oil specification. This PI provides the necessary information as to what the vehicle owner or dealer service department should do if they need to add engine oil or change the engine oil in their new vehicle, until the availability of dexos 1™ engine oil becomes widespread. 

         For additional information refer to dexos 1™ Synthetic Blend Engine Oil Announcement - Customer Care and Aftersales Bulletin CCA10-129 (U.S.) or GMP2010-149 (Canada). 

    •  GM has introduced the dexos 1™ engine oil specification because it offers several advantages over engine oils of previous specifications. These advantages include all of the following: 

       -  A greater level of engine cleanliness. 

       -  Additional wear protection. 

       -  Improved aeration control. 

       -  Improved corrosion protection. 

       -  Increased fuel economy. 

       -  Increased sludge control. 

       -  dexos 1™ is backwards compatible to older vehicles and is a suitable oil for pre-2011 GM vehicles (excluding all vehicles equipped with Duramax™ diesel engines). 

Recommendation/Instructions
    •  As the availability of dexos 1™ increases, GM highly recommends that owners switch to dexos 1™ as soon as is practical to conform with GM Powertrain warranty requirements. 

    •  When dexos 1™ oil becomes available dealers should use their inventory of American Petroleum Institute (API) Certified for Gasoline Engines Starburst oils in vehicles that DO NOT require dexos 1™ oil. 

    •  GM's acceptance of the use of substitute engine oils is temporary. The acceptability of non dexos 1™ engine oils will be discontinued when dexos 1™ oil availability is pervasive. GM recommends the following substitute engine oils as outlined per applicable vehicle:
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mmarges
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2010, 03:20:23 PM »

Does anyone really even follow that oil life monitoring system anyway?

Regardless of which oil (conventional, semi or fully synthetic) I change it every 6000km anyway. Sometimes those oil life monitoring system can get you 12,000km...I'd get a little werry at that point!
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rutger1413
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2010, 04:24:49 PM »


    •  GM's acceptance of the use of substitute engine oils is temporary. The acceptability of non dexos 1™ engine oils will be discontinued when dexos 1™ oil availability is pervasive. GM recommends the following substitute engine oils as outlined per applicable vehicle:


Can you list those oils that can be substituted?
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2010, 04:31:29 PM »

I use synth (Mobil 1) and change every 5k miles. I know the oil will last longer, but I don't trust the filter for 10-15k miles. Is Dexros 1 a brand name or type of oil? I've never heard of it before..
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2010, 05:05:10 PM »

I use syn and change it at 10%.

As for dexos 1, its just a scam. All syns already meet the certification but not all companies are going to pay GM to get the cert on the bottle.
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2010, 05:25:57 PM »

One of the best sites to read about oil

here is the post about  dexos 1

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2001027&page=1
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2010, 05:30:34 PM »

Ohhhh, didnt know that Pennzoil Platinum is already Dexos1 certified. Good to know, Ive already been using it for 2 years. lol
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2010, 06:22:33 PM »

a warning not to use conventional oil in any 2011 model or this could void your warranty.
As is mentioned later in your post, using conventional oil will not void your warranty at the present time, since dexos1 is not yet widely available.  I asked the service writer at my local dealer last week about the oil they use on 2011 models...first he said he had never heard of dexos1, but after a 5 minute hold on the phone he came back and said he was mistaken, that they had just had a meeting about it the previous week.  He knew the oil was coming but didn't know when exactly.  So in the meantime, dealers (and I'm sure it's not just mine) are using conventional oil.  GM CANNOT void your warranty if the dealer used conventional oil!!!  And let's face it, if you always get your oil changed at the dealer, they can't void it no matter WHAT oil they stick in the car, even if dexos is widely available.

Ohhhh, didnt know that Pennzoil Platinum is already Dexos1 certified. Good to know, Ive already been using it for 2 years. lol
Well, the previous/current formulation of Pennzoil Platinum was/is a very good oil, but is not dexos1-certified.  You have to look for the logo on the front of the bottle.  I've been checking my local FLAPS for dexos oil of any brand and so far none is on the shelves.  I'm hoping it will be available in the next couple months before my first oil change...I probably will do it by 3,000 miles (can't bear to wait until ~10,000 on that first change--maybe after the first one I'll follow the OLM).

As for dexos 1, its just a scam.
Scam?  Upon what facts do you base that statement?  The fact that GM is trying to make money selling certification to the standard may make it seem like it's just a marketing scam, but dexos is an actual specification that differs from existing specs such as GF-4 or the new GF-5.

All syns already meet the certification but not all companies are going to pay GM to get the cert on the bottle.
It's possibly (probably?) true that synthetics meet the certification, they're just not allowed to say it unless they pay GM's fee.  But you're absolutely right, not all companies will pay GM's certification fee.  They may only decide it's necessary if they begin to lose market share due to consumers buying oil with the dexos certification vs those that could care less.

Is Dexros 1 a brand name or type of oil? I've never heard of it before..
dexos is the name of GM's specification.  It's not a brand name.  For any number of reasons GM decided that existing oil specs were deficient in one or more ways and came up with a new one.  They decided to license certification to the spec and make some money off it.  Personally I'm not in favor of this plan, and I think GM could have come up with a way to use GF-5, but it is what it is.  GM is not the only company to do this, however, other auto companies do the same thing.

The oil will cost a bit more than conventional oil, but probably less than full synthetic.  On the flip side you can go a lot further between oil changes so the cost will be the same or less over time.  And if you believe the marketing you'll get longer engine life at the same time.  Who knows?

Say what you want, in the end this is not a sword-falling issue.  As long as the car is reliable, I'm perfectly willing to hoist my glass to this particular bar.  Has anybody looked at the maintenance requirements for the Equinox/Terrain?  Honestly, the car requires VERY little maintenance over 150,000 miles.  Might as well use the dexos-certified stuff when you can and not worry about it!   Grin
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Mike
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2010, 06:34:20 PM »


Well, the previous/current formulation of Pennzoil Platinum was/is a very good oil, but is not dexos1-certified.  You have to look for the logo on the front of the bottle.  I've been checking my local FLAPS for dexos oil of any brand and so far none is on the shelves.  I'm hoping it will be available in the next couple months before my first oil change...I probably will do it by 3,000 miles (can't bear to wait until ~10,000 on that first change--maybe after the first one I'll follow the OLM).


ummmm yes it does meet dexos requirements....

http://www.pennzoil.com/documents/DexosPressRelease.pdf
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mmarges
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2010, 07:11:20 PM »

In my opinion GM basically invented their own spec and is then strong-arming their customers in to buying their oil and creating fear that any other conventional oil (while following their dexros 1 calibrated oil life montoring system) will void the warranty.
They do this not only to sell oil, but to get you in to a GM dealer and sell oil changes and any other services that they can find your car might need.

This engine and block was engineered and designed years ago back when there was no such thing as Dexrose 1 so they have no leg to stand on no matter what oil you use.
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2010, 07:20:57 PM »

ummmm yes it does meet dexos requirements....

http://www.pennzoil.com/documents/DexosPressRelease.pdf

Well, you have to understand how certification works.  First of all, the press release says (my highlights):

Quote
new, next-generation Pennzoil Platinum® full synthetic motor oil is fully dexos1™-approved in the popular SAE 5W-30 viscosity grade.

From the www.gmdexos.com website (again my emphasis):

Quote
To ensure this high quality, specially designed oil is not only available at GM service centers, a licensing program has been established so that dexos™ is also available at retail outlets and quick lube operations.  dexos™ licensed products are easy to identify.  Simply look for the word dexos™ and its icon on the front label and the dexos™ license number on the back label (11 characters, alphanumeric).  Don't be fooled by oils with claims on the back label such as "meets", "complies with" or "is approved for use with" the dexos™ specification.  Look alikes or unlicensed products that don't display the dexos™ icon and trademark on the front label simply don't comply with the high performance and quality standards of dexos™.

So if the Pennzoil Platinum you find on the shelf at the auto parts store doesn't have that logo, it is NOT dexos-certified.  Excellent quality oil, certainly, but according to GM it's not sufficient to simply meet the spec--the container has to display the logo.  Their rules, not mine.   wink

edit:  Once the bottle of Pennzoil shows up with the logo, THAT will be dexos-certified.
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Mike
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2010, 07:35:30 PM »

They do this not only to sell oil, but to get you in to a GM dealer and sell oil changes and any other services that they can find your car might need.
But you'll be able to buy the oil pretty much everywhere...eventually.  You do NOT have to buy the AC-Delco brand oil from the dealer, nor do you have to go to the dealer for service.  And the sad fact is that not even the dealers have this oil in stock yet!!!  So any advantage they might have had on the issue doesn't actually exist.
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Mike
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mmarges
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2010, 07:43:51 PM »

But you'll be able to buy the oil pretty much everywhere...eventually.  You do NOT have to buy the AC-Delco brand oil from the dealer, nor do you have to go to the dealer for service.  And the sad fact is that not even the dealers have this oil in stock yet!!!  So any advantage they might have had on the issue doesn't actually exist.

Yes, you and I both know that...but the majority of customers who havn't a clue about cars other than to turn a key and step on the gas will believe that a GM specific oil is something you have to get at a dealer. Either way licensing fees have to be paid by someone and it's always the customer so you'll be paying more wheather you get it at a dealer or at a local lube shop. I'll just buy what ever is equivalent, a semi or fully synthetic of another brand and bypass paying that bullsh$t licensing fee.
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2010, 07:59:09 PM »

Yes, you and I both know that...but the majority of customers who havn't a clue about cars other than to turn a key and step on the gas will believe that a GM specific oil is something you have to get at a dealer.
Can't argue with you there, not one bit!!

I'll just buy what ever is equivalent, a semi or fully synthetic of another brand and bypass paying that bullsh$t licensing fee.
And for probably 99% of those drivers out there who use non-dexos oil and drive under "normal" conditions, there will be no noticeable impact.  Especially if you use a synthetic or GF-5 oil.  If you beat the hell out of the car and use a conventional oil there might be a problem, but then do you blame that on the non-dexos oil or on the abuse?
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Mike
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2010, 08:15:19 PM »

In my opinion GM basically invented their own spec and is then strong-arming their customers in to buying their oil and creating fear that any other conventional oil (while following their dexros 1 calibrated oil life montoring system) will void the warranty.
They do this not only to sell oil, but to get you in to a GM dealer and sell oil changes and any other services that they can find your car might need.

This engine and block was engineered and designed years ago back when there was no such thing as Dexrose 1 so they have no leg to stand on no matter what oil you use.
Thats exactly why I call it a scam.

Instead of updating their old spec they suddenly come up with this new spec stuff. I just hope this doesnt turn in a VWoA type of thing where they actually will try, successfully in a few cases, void engine warranties due to oil type.

It just seems like they could of called for a synthetic use since Dexos1 is a super high syn blend instead of inventing their own certification.
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« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2010, 08:18:03 PM »

Thats exactly why I call it a scam.
They've not won many friends, for sure.  The only thing I can offer is that none of us here knows what, if anything, they changed inside the engine or in the programming that takes advantage of the new spec.
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Mike
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« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2010, 01:56:29 PM »

Well, you have to understand how certification works.  First of all, the press release says (my highlights):
From the www.gmdexos.com website (again my emphasis):
So if the Pennzoil Platinum you find on the shelf at the auto parts store doesn't have that logo, it is NOT dexos-certified.  Excellent quality oil, certainly, but according to GM it's not sufficient to simply meet the spec--the container has to display the logo.  Their rules, not mine.   wink

edit:  Once the bottle of Pennzoil shows up with the logo, THAT will be dexos-certified.


I honestly do not believe the logo is required to meet cert for either Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum.  I actually called both companies and was told by both that no changes in formulation were needed to meed Dexos1 cert.  In other words, with or without the logo the oil is the same.
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« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2010, 05:04:16 PM »

I would like GM to state the reason why the 2010 models have to have an oil the meets their 6094 spec (Almost any oil) and why the 2011's require DEXOS?  I know the 2011 are flex fuel but I doubt that is the reason.
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« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2010, 05:18:33 PM »

The 2011 4 cylinder is not flex fuel.
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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2010, 12:42:03 AM »

I would like GM to state the reason why the 2010 models have to have an oil the meets their 6094 spec (Almost any oil) and why the 2011's require DEXOS?  I know the 2011 are flex fuel but I doubt that is the reason.
2010 last year of the Cobalt - 2008 to 2010 SS come from the factory with  Mobil 1- GM waits, Saves GM money as they are charging a lot for the NEW cert.
Now the new Cruze comes out so GM planned this to coincide with the Cruze- they did not care about the Terrain - Nox needing it or not.
It's not that the Terrain or Nox requires it's about GM wanting to make money off the oil companies by charging them for the new cert and to do that GM has to require that everything made after that point needs the new cert oil.
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