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Author Topic: Rustproofing: do's and don't, opinions  (Read 9368 times)
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No Tyme
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« on: April 26, 2012, 10:24:39 AM »

I am researching rustproofing companies and I am leaning towards Ziebart, and they still drill holes in the body panels. They have a much better system of applying the material right where they want it versus the process of "misting" that is used by other companies when they do not drill holes. I believe that this misting will apply the material on everything inside the door panel and that would make any work on the inside of that door a fricking mess if you had to replace wiring, glass or window motors.
I have been told by GM that any rust that starts around the holes that are drilled to apply the rustproofing would void the warranty. But what if the rust starts somewhere other that around the hole?
Any opinions out there, as my wife usually keeps her vehicles for the long haul...
Does anyone understand the difference in the 2 ways that rustproofing is applied? I would like your opinions!
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Rit
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 11:03:23 AM »

I I would like your opinions!

Save your money.  Cars these days have, for the most part, eliminated the need for rust-proofing, and their factory rust-through warranty says it all.

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fourmoremarine
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 11:08:07 AM »

I was talking with my Service Mgr yesterday and my vehicle is going in to get painted again for the rust under the back emblem but I degress I told him about someone on here having a rust problem on the bottom of their doors and he said that If I wanted they would but in some seam sealer rust preventer  I asked if they spray it by drilling holes and he said they would remove the door panels and spray the bottom of the doors that way..BTW Doing it for free..  
Ziebart used to be a good quality product but they are no longer any where near where I live  If your going to keep the vehicle, I'd go the ziebart route but I would think that their wands spray all over the inside of the panels also  
Do you have to have vehicle"Touched up" every year with the Ziebart???
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fourmoremarine
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 11:11:03 AM »

Save your money.  Cars these days have, for the most part, eliminated the need for rust-proofing, and their factory rust-through warranty says it all.


GM must have gotten some bad metal on that guys vehicle that the bottom of the doors look like there 15 years old in 16 months..
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No Tyme
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 11:34:53 AM »

Ziebart used to be a good quality product but they are no longer any where near where I live  If your going to keep the vehicle, I'd go the ziebart route but I would think that their wands spray all over the inside of the panels also  
Do you have to have vehicle"Touched up" every year with the Ziebart???

I got a quote from a local Ziebart of $649 for the complete package, rustproofing, paint protect-ant and interior protect-ant. It cost $29.95 each time you bring it back for a check and they recommend every year.
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2012, 07:04:21 PM »

Rust proofing is pretty much a thing in the past. Most areas protected by the rust proofing is no longer an area that is at risk. Todays cars the rockers and lower doors rust our and rust proofing will not protect these.

Also note any coating added will void any GM warranty on rust.

I generally keep my cars 10-12 years and I have never had any rust in any area that rust proofing would have covered. Todays cars just don't need it.
If it gives you peace of mind then do it but the cost of the product and improved protection is just not there. I live in the rust belt here in ohio and I would have a hard time finding anyone who will rust proof a car anymore. Note the lack of rust proofing dealers is a sign that generally it is a thing whos time has passed.

Note many cars are using treated metals, covers and coatings on the pan and other areas that protect the car. Parts that do rust today are often things you should not be putting any rust proofing on in the first place.

I was at one time a rust proofing advocate but today with what I have learned and know on todays cars I would not recomend it in any way.



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fourmoremarine
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2012, 07:26:56 PM »

something really wrong here with vehicle only being 16 months old
Looks like moisture trapped between the door panels, Maybe a little sealer would keep it from happening...
Just a thought but I'm getting mine sealed...
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No Tyme
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2012, 08:31:22 PM »

something really wrong here with vehicle only being 16 months old
Looks like moisture trapped between the door panels, Maybe a little sealer would keep it from happening...
Just a thought but I'm getting mine sealed...
This is exactly what I am concerned about. This is very unfortunate but what I see in this photo is rust that you will not be able to stop. I think it is on the inside of these panels and just sanding and re-painting the outside will not stop what is going on inside.
I wish you luck with your issue.
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2012, 03:59:34 AM »

Sorry but the rustproofing will not stop issue of the rust at the bottom of the door. Others have tried it and it did noting to stop it.

This is an issue that many models are seeing today. The problem for the most is the lower seem in folded ant tacked. If the metal prep at the factory is not right it can show rust. I have even seen this on Honda cars.

I had a small spot like this start on my GTP and I clean it off with a small wire wheel and then put RustBullet [similar to por-15 on it. The car today is on the used car lot with no rust. Generally from what I have seen the rust is from the outside and I think if many of the MFG's would put a sealer in the seam like the older cars had we would be seeing fewer issues.

But as it is the majority of cars are still not showing issues here. Even most of the Nox and Terrains here will not have an issue till 15 years from now and most will be worn out.
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fourmoremarine
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2012, 06:00:01 AM »

This is exactly what I am concerned about. This is very unfortunate but what I see in this photo is rust that you will not be able to stop. I think it is on the inside of these panels and just sanding and re-painting the outside will not stop what is going on inside.
I wish you luck with your issue.

I agree, appears to me as though the water has been trapped between the door outter and inner skin I believe that if sealer was applied to the inside of the door it would fill up the void that is below tha drain holes and help out a lot
That is not a picture of my vehicle, another poster posted it mine doesnot have this problem yet(?) If I was keeping vehicle for along time I'd go with the Ziebart, but I'd only get exterior  done Just my .02
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2012, 06:54:41 AM »

Had a hood replaced on my Saturn LS1 and after 4 years the seam at the front rusted.  I thought it would be covered by GM but Saturn only had a 1 year warranty on replacement parts that was different because it was a subsidary.  I called Sate farm and they said they did not cover the warranty for parts.  Saturn wouldn't helped so I went to Sate farm and they paid for a new hood.  I had to pay to paint it which was more that the part.
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2012, 06:55:55 AM »

Oh  And the only thing I don't like with rustproffing is if they clog the drain holes in the doors.  They did that on my 1978 Camaro.  I paid for rustproffing back then.
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fourmoremarine
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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2012, 10:04:06 AM »

Oh  And the only thing I don't like with rustproffing is if they clog the drain holes in the doors.  They did that on my 1978 Camaro.  I paid for rustproffing back then.
Then do like my grandfather did on hois cars,, used oil bath ,pour that stuff everywhere you think it might retain water and it will help keep it from rustting.
Modern rustproofinghas newerthinner product that flows into these seams and doesn't clog the drain holes  botton of those doors has some pretty big drain holes in them but they appear to be up too far
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2012, 11:25:12 AM »

I don't bother with dealer add on rustproofing. The 2 cars I had in the late 80's and early 90's did not rust.   I liked the poly panels on my last 2 Saturns
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dwendt44
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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2012, 03:44:04 PM »

New cars are pretty good about not rusting generally. They should get you to 10 years and/or 100,000 miles at least.

I've had Ziebart done on a previous auto. They are better at targeting where they spray inside the door panels, etc.. I certainly made the car quieter on the road.

If it were me, I'd skip the paint and interior treatment. Those are certainly not worth the money.
Price just the rust proofing. They wash the underbody well before the undercoat.
That's the trick really. The goop they put under there must be on the metal to work. A layer of dust or dirt will defeat the whole purpose.

I'm in the snow belt/rust belt and haven't noticed any rust starting. I've had mine since January of 2011. Crossing my fingers.
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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2012, 05:00:28 PM »

Might note that most underbodies of cars no longer rust much in pan areas and other areas. Things like control arms and suspension parts will show rust but rust proofers generally try to avoid those.

I would recomend many of you take a look under your cars and see what is there. The pans are now powder coated or coated with a hardended epoxie. wheel wells are not also coated with a hardend black coating and are often plastic. Many cars are now using many aluminum parts and even whole sub frames made of aluminum. The fact is there is little to no bare metal under a car anymore.

My old GTP has the full aluminum sub frame and the pan was epoxie coated. It saw 8-9 witners here with us in a salt hash enviroment. We only had a little rust on the shock and struts other wise the bottom was clean.

Even the exhaust was clean. I had to change the converter and all the bolts were stainless and came right out with hand tools. In the old days I would have had to cut off or heat the rusty bolts.

Many body panels like deck lids and hoods are aluminum now too. Bumpers and lower quarters are plastic etc.

As for paint and interior treatments forget it as the most interiors in cars are already treated. Many cars the seats will repel a spilled drink with their treatments. Paint sealants are an old thing that really has little effect on a good clear coat paint that wax will take care of just as well.

If your drains are open there is little Rust inside doors.

For the most part other than seam like at the bottom of a door or rear hatch or on the edge of a hood there is little to no rust issues and rust proofing will not address these ares. Most rust also srats from the outside in with a scratch or dent. Zibart will not fix tha either.

The fact is most of you will wear out the car before it rust out.

I still see my old 1990 GP on the road and it still has no rust with well over 200,000 miles.
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fourmoremarine
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« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2012, 06:14:18 PM »

What's going on here then? Not from a scratch on the outside that's for sure.
So for now I'll agree to disagree and my thought's are" If I planned on keeping the vehicle in the picture for a few years, I'd have Ziebart do the exterior.. Just my opinion. And he asked for opinions...
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« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2012, 07:12:20 PM »

What's going on here then? Not from a scratch on the outside that's for sure.
So for now I'll agree to disagree and my thought's are" If I planned on keeping the vehicle in the picture for a few years, I'd have Ziebart do the exterior.. Just my opinion. And he asked for opinions...

While not being a rust expert, I'd bet that Ziebart would NOT have prevented OP's rust on the lower door.  I think he was dealt a bad hand.
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« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2012, 09:30:32 PM »

The door shin panel itself gets bonded to the inner door frame with bonding adhesive on most newer cars , spot welds stopped awhile ago . The bonding material goes on the door panel then the flange on the skin  gets folder over , after all the body panels are assembled onto the car it goes through a E coat bath getting totally submerged in the E coat . Sometimes the part that gets folder over is pretty tight and no E coat gets into the small crevice and that's where the problems start. The best Rust proofing is thin oil like Rust proofing that flows, anything that's to thick will not get into the seams to protect them . A good Rustproofing in Ontario is Rust Check  http://www.rustcheck.com/   
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jackiek
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« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2012, 09:55:28 PM »

Another thing no one has mentioned is the fact that most communities across the country have cut way back on their use of road salt. Many now put down a brine solution  instead of dumping salt all over the road.



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